I am a superfan of Michael Hobbes, cohost of Maintenance Phase (with Aubrey Gorman). Maintenance Phase uses the same format deployed in his first podcast (You’re Wrong About cohosted with Sarah Marshall) where one of the hosts tells the other about a topic they researched. Structurally, it works so well. The host who’s coming in cold on the topic serves as the audience proxy and there’s a clear conversational driver. I’m not a big fan of the “aimless conversation between friends” genre of podcasting, but I love dropping in on structured conversations between two smart people who like and respect each other. Especially when it’s a man and a woman taking turns listening to each other. (Sarah once said in a You’re Wrong About bonus episode that this was something that she loved about cohosting the show with Michael and I’ve never forgotten it.)

Maintenance Phase is primarily about the junk science behind fad diets and the toxicity of the weight loss industry, but this episode had an unexpected through line about personal narrative, a topic that’s really interesting and important to me. I believe storytelling is the most powerful force in our lives, collectively and individually. It was fun to hear that reiterated through the lens of dietary choices, of all things.

I also loved this quote below from the Atlantic article that was referenced in the episode:

The beneficial effects of a compelling personal narrative that helps explain and give order to the world can be absolutely physiologically real. It is well documented that the immune system (and, so, autoimmune diseases) are modulated by our lifestyles—from how much we sleep and move to how well we eat and how much we drink. Most importantly, the immune system is also modulated by stress, which tends to be a by-product of a perceived lack of control or order.

James Hamblin for The Atlantic

Amazing how our perception of the world impacts our experience of the world. If you don’t want to listen to the whole episode (which I think would be a mistake, but you do you), the narrative convos happen at 17:17 and 53:10.